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October 16, 2009

Newport Gwent Dragons 22 - 14 Glasgow Warriors

Heineken Cup match played at Rodney Parade on Friday October 16th 2009 | 47 comments

John Beattie went over for Glasgow's first try
Glasgow's Heineken Cup hopes are all but over after slumping to defeat against the Dragons at Rodney Parade.

The Dragons, beaten in their opener last weekend, took an early lead as Adam Jones was driven over for a try. However, against the run of the play it was cancelled out when John Beattie strolled through a huge gap in the home defence for a try under the posts.

But with Beattie in the sin-bin the hosts took control with two tries just before the break with Luke Charteris and Martyn Thomas punishing Glasgow for losing possession. It meant the Dragons turned around with a 22-7 lead.

Kevin Tkachuk responded with a converted try for Glasgow but that was as close as they got - Dan Parks missing a penalty with the last kick of the match, one which would have given his side a losing bonus point.

"We lost the game again and the Dragons didn't win it," said Glasgow coach Sean Lineen.

"They scored all three tries from us having the ball. There was a lot of naivety from us and a lack of direction. When we made mistakes, our heads went down and they took full advantage."

Referee Romain Poite (France)
Attendance 6,119
Jon Welsh
Dougie Hall
Moray Low
Tim Barker
Alastair Kellock
Richie Vernon
John Barclay
John Beattie
Chris Cusiter
Dan Parks
Thom Evans
Graeme Morrison
Dave McCall
Colin Shaw
Bernardo Stortoni
Pat MacArthur
Kevin Tkachuk
Ed Kalman
Dan Turner
Colin Gregor
Peter Horne
Hefin O'Hare
Kelly Brown
Match Substitutions
Off On
Chris Cusiter Colin Gregor
Off On
Jon Welsh Kevin Tkachuk
Off On
Tim Barker Dan Turner
Off On
Richie Vernon Kelly Brown
Off On
Dougie Hall Pat MacArthur
Off On
Dave McCall Hefin O'Hare
Off On
Bernardo Stortoni Peter Horne
Off On
Moray Low Ed Kalman
John Beattie Try 
Dan Parks Conversion
Kevin Tkachuk Try 
Dan Parks Conversion
Posted by Simon on October 16, 2009 10:12 PM | Reply to this comment

Another misrable faliure. Still watching the excuses flood in is at least entertaining.

Posted by Kazakh Warrior on October 17, 2009 03:44 AM | Reply to this comment

Didn't hear any excuses from Lineen.

He said they were not good enough.

New players next week by the sound of things...

Posted by seb on October 17, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply to this comment

Time for Lineen to go I feel, not a knee-jerk reaction as have felt it for a while. Considering calibre of player we have we underperform regularly and are too inconsistent. The 2 Henineken cup games you looked at and thought it was a great chance to start with 2 wins - instead we are essentially out. Not good enough....again.

Posted by johnnyboy on October 17, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply to this comment

Not entirely sure that the route of the problem is with Lineen and his coaching group however you could make the case that any coaching team naturally runs out of steam with any group of players. If you look at the team objectively – back division pretty good in attack and defence with a good mix of younger/older players, scrum half/ standoff combinations work well, back row strength in depth, front row doing nicely. I am afraid that leaves the second row. Most teams we come up against in the ML or HC have at least one monster 2nd rower on the pitch and one on the bench who can gather the ball make yards by smashing straight into the opposition, RETAINING the ball, sucking in the opposition and letting the backs do their bit. Not pretty but effective and wins games as after all this is professional sport and first and foremost result first, get into the habit of winning then look at what style we use to win. None of our combinations of Barker, Kellock and Turner appears to be able to do this. Far too often, our second row is bounced backwards and or the ball is lost. Need to look at the second row resources.

Posted by Derek on October 17, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply to this comment

Why did the Management not address this in the Summer? Gray will hopefully develop into an good player, but to heap pressure on him to help carry the team in a keay area in his first season as a pro is wrong.

Kellock just does not do anywhere near enough in broken play.

If money was the issue maybe it would have been better to spend the Cuister cash on a Lock, an area of great weakness as opposed to scrum half where McMillan and Budgie did well for us.

Posted by sunday5 on October 17, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply to this comment

I thought Beatie was unlucky to get a yellow card and T-Bones try was well taken but all in all this was piss poor. They just ripped us up. The Dragons are not such a good team that they should realistically be looking to score 4 tries against us but then perhaps we're simply not where we think we are?

There can't be many excuses for this one. There were a couple of young players in the mix but they were supported by some very experienced guys. Certainly not good enough. Something has to give.

Also it was pretty disappointing to see so much bad feeling from the crowd. They really did give dP some stick when he was lining up. I can only speak from what I saw on TV but what was going on? It wasn't even an important kick!

Posted by Johnnyboy on October 17, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply to this comment

What channel was the game on last night?

Posted by sunday5 on October 17, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply to this comment

S4C Highlights.

Posted by Osama bin Hidin on October 17, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply to this comment

Just watched the highlights on S4C. I simply CANNOT BELIEVE the ref gave a yellow card for JB!!! The guy was on the floor, killing the ball - he deserved a shoeing. What a soft yellow! Bonkers. Cost us the game. Knob. (The ref, not JB)

Posted by Derek on October 17, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply to this comment

Can't keep blaming Refs every week! JB was unlucky to get a Yellow, but so to be fair was their guy.

I listened to the game on the Radio and ok it was biased in favour of the Welsh, but the game was pretty much controlled by the Dragons from the first minute to the last. A Dragons side missing a whole host of forwards and with two of their best backs on the bench as they were not 100% fit.

It seemed everytime we had a chance to put them under pressure our handling let us down.

Posted by seb on October 17, 2009 10:18 PM | Reply to this comment

We have been woefully inconsistent for years - coaching team has had ample opportunity to ship people out and bring others in. Not saying we should be matching munster and leinster but I feel another coach would get more out of a talented group of players.

Posted by s153 on October 19, 2009 07:33 AM | Reply to this comment

Correct, Lineen has had more than enough time (remember he was part of the previous coaching set up - that failed miserably as well).
Our backs can do a job - if they get decent ball. The problem has been the forwards - and this has been the problem for quite a few seasons now. Any coach worth his salt would have addressed this issue long before now, Lineen hasn't - time to go. We need several big hard b*st8rds in the pack that will allow our forwards to dominate the other pack. Until such times as tis happens we are wasting our time.

Posted by osama bin Hidin on October 18, 2009 07:29 PM | Reply to this comment

They do say the coach makes the team... Glasgow has always had good players... Brown, Barclay, Beattie, the Evans brothers... Lamonts... and loads more in previous years... Parks when he's on form... Bernie... Fck Me!!!! That's a good list of GOOD players! How come they don't do better...? The buck stops... where...?

I do wonder if a different coach might get more from the mix. Sorry Sean... I think you've been a great servant to the club and Scottish rugby... and you are a very nice bloke... but....

Posted by Derek on October 18, 2009 08:10 PM | Reply to this comment

Problem is in the tough end of the ML and in the HC we have come up and continue to come up against sides with VERY good players.

We have had and still do have good players, but successful teams have 22 very good players, not four or five.

If someone gave Sean an extra £1m budget in the Summer, I am sure he would have signed proven quality players, he must knows that certain players are not good enough.

That said at some point someone has to say if you cant take the team forward then time to let someone else try. I still think we are someway from that, as I posted in the forum a win on Friday and we will be in the playoff positions with third of the season gone!

Posted by neil mortron on October 18, 2009 08:16 PM | Reply to this comment

Why do the majority of people who post on this thread have such high expectations? Scottish rugby is weak and Glasgow have too many Scottish players. They are simply not good enough to play in the HC. Friday's result is all this team can realistically hope to achieve. They are inferior in every way to the other teams both individually and collectively. Accept that you are just not able to play with the big boys!

Posted by Winter on October 18, 2009 09:26 PM | Reply to this comment

So, which team do you support then? Sale? Sarries? Ospreys?

Posted by Neil Morton on October 19, 2009 09:21 AM | Reply to this comment

I follow Glasgow with interest but am pretty much a neutral in terms of club rugby. The point remains though that the Warriors can never really expect to eat from the high table of European Rugby. No need to blame Lineen. He has arguably done all he can with the limited resources available.
Scottish rugby is an impossible situation. The expectation of the rugby playing class far outweighs on pitch ability. This is clear both on club and international stage.
Glasgow and Edinburgh play in the second rate Magners league. On the whole it is inferior to the Premiership. The Dragons are an average team from this second rate league and Glasgow cant beat them. It's hardly a great endorsement of ability.
Scottish players need to play in England or France and could learn far much more from doing that. Someone like Cusiter would have developed so much more as a player had he been allowed to remain in France. Instead he had to return to get a look in on the international front. It's such a pathetically insular approach and one that will continue this slippery slope of non achievement.
The international side is rubbish anyway. Fortress Scotland is more like Funhouse Scotland. Scottish rugby is becoming a bit of a joke.

Posted by sunday5 on October 19, 2009 10:20 AM | Reply to this comment

"Accept that YOU are just not able to play with the big boys!"

You? And yet YOU are one of US? Don't think so, old boy. I think perhaps you are more of a Premiership fan. Perhaps you're a little tired of seeing teams from the "second rate" Magners League trouncing the great and the good of Premiership and French sides? We and I do mean WE as in OUR club have beaten Wasps and Munster this season. We came withing inches of beating Biarritz which wouldn't have been the first time. I'm not going to get into some daft pissing contest with you here suffice to say that while there are problems in Scottish rugby simply saying Scotland is rubbish therefor we can't win anything, Magners is rubbish because.... Not too sure what your justification for that one was... It just all strikes of xenophobia and while no doubt you'll claim to be a rugby following Scot of pedigree, I for one am just not too sure I believe you. Perhaps if you are so despondent with the state of Scottish rugby you should perhaps follow another club? I'd suggest Saracens. There's a loquacious type named Saracenman around here somewhere. You two would get on well!

Posted by AJPatterson on October 20, 2009 01:28 PM | Reply to this comment

Sorry, what is this "2nd rate Magners League". Have you invented a 2nd division or something?

The stats speak for themselves. 3 of the 4 Heiny semi finalists last year. The last 2 Heiny winners. The majority of the Lions squad. Most of the wins last weekend.

We bumped into some lads from Lydney on the train to Newport. (Not difficult as they were carrying a parcel half the size of the carriage). Lydney is rugby heartland, very Glrrstrshrrr. They get rugby balls for their 1st birthday there. I asked them if they went to Gloucester often, they said no, they went to the Dragons instead as it was a much higher standard of rugby. Go figure. Or even better, come and actually watch some of it.

Posted by way_ahead on October 19, 2009 09:41 AM | Reply to this comment

2nd rate league - mmmmm....

All major Northern Hemishere rugby held in Celtic countries.

Scarlets, Ospreys, Dragons, Leinster, Munster, etc all win at weekend

We have probs, but its not the magners. It simple, its cash and economics. We don't have enough cash to get the best players, SRU doesn't have funds to develop grass routes.

Until the economics is right, we will be valiant triers

Posted by Derek on October 19, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply to this comment

"The Dragons are an average team from this second rate league and Glasgow cant beat them. It's hardly a great endorsement of ability."

I think with your comment on the Magners League being second rate shows how much you follow Club Rugby at Professional level. Last two HC winners have come from the Mangers League, look at the likes of the Scarlets, top of their HC pool with a 100% record yet sit second bottom of the Magners! Munster, Leinster, Ospreys and Cardiff would all comfortably compete the in the GP.

"Cusiter would have developed so much more as a player had he been allowed to remain in France. Instead he had to return to get a look in on the international front." Since when has playing outside of Scotland been a barrier to the Scotland team? With a fully fit squad to pick from, R.Lamont, Hines, Murray and Strokosh would all be nailed on certanties to play for Scotland. While a number from White, Dickinson, S.Lamont, Walker and Danelli would no doubt be involved.

How many of the Grand Slam winning players of Ireland and Wales play outside the Magners League? Does not seem to have stopped them developing as competitive sides in the NH.

Way ahead, is correct for the Scottish teams to compete properly they need cash. The "average" Dragons team you talk about is working with a budget of almost double what Glasgow and Edinburgh work with. Until we can keep almost all our national stars in Scotland and supplement them with quality Overseas players we will always be behind the eight ball.

Posted by gnasher on October 19, 2009 11:18 AM | Reply to this comment

A lot of good points, Derek. The key is money - it buys strength in depth. The injuries etc have hurt us more than the larger squads. Richie Gray was probably Sean's solution to the 2nd row problem cited elsewhere. He may be young but he's big enough and good enough to play on this stage. Look at Dan Biggar, yesterday, 20 years old in the key position and kicking the goals. With a name like that - the Scottish selectors should have been quicker off the mark.

Hopefully with Max returning soon we'll get more of the squad fit and competing for places. Changing the coach will do nothing to improve squad morale, returning players will. A win against Connacht would help of course.

Posted by hello on October 19, 2009 02:30 PM | Reply to this comment

i count 25 of the lions from magners league.

Posted by neil morton on October 19, 2009 03:34 PM | Reply to this comment

how many of those Lions come from Glasgow or Edinburgh?

Posted by Derek on October 19, 2009 03:52 PM | Reply to this comment

The point of mentioning the Lions was not in defence of the realtive standards of the Scottish teams, but the overall standard of the league. Which you refer to as a "second rate league".

Out of interest for the 2009/10 season, of the players selected for the Lions either in the original squad or called up as replacements. 35 play in the ML and only nine play in the GP!

Posted by neil morton on October 19, 2009 04:16 PM | Reply to this comment

It's the other players in the league apart from those "Lions" that, man for man, are not so strong as their GP counterparts. Although that's only my opinion.
How much money would it take to get Glasgow up there? Surely there must be some Abramovich type who could plough some cash in? In the current climate I cannot see any investors getting a good financial return so it would have to be someone who was in it for the love of the club more than anything else. I wouldnt really care if that meant an influx of foreigners either.

Posted by Hugues on October 19, 2009 04:52 PM | Reply to this comment

Still supporting Scottish Rugby, for ever as I can.
Frankly, the MONEY is the big issue,

The 2 pro sides have together 6M pounds.
STADE Français= 20M pounds.

Very hard to compete...

Posted by Les on October 19, 2009 05:19 PM | Reply to this comment

Having attended the game on Friday the problem for this game was not money but poor execution. We had chances but lacked either the guile, confidence and composure to finish them. In coughing up the ball too easily we gift wrapped three tries to an average side who took their chances well.

Money is important but there have been many money poor teams who have done well - we just don't seem to be able to get it together. While I have a lot of respect for Sean and what he has managed to achieve I am increasingly concerned that the relationship with the team is breaking down to the point of no return and that new coaching blood could be needed to get more out of a decent squad.

Posted by manattheback on October 19, 2009 07:44 PM | Reply to this comment

I find it strange that we have this constant thread of blaming the coaches - do we go back further and blame Kiwi Searanke and Steve Anderson who were both so vilified because a player allegedly broke down in tears after he had been criticised? It is not the coaches who consistently go out, having performed to a high standard one week, and look no better than poorly organised amateurs.
There will always be detractors of the coaches - they are the easy targets. It is the players who need to take a long hard look at the way they prepare and who need to go away and look up the meaning of the word 'professional' (it doesn't just mean you get paid for playing!)
As for Richie Gray being some great hope - did you ever watch him play for Hawks or Stirling - he only shows up when he knows someone of influence is watching his game and he doesn't do the hard work that Glasgow really need from their 2nd rows - he's certainly no enforcer!

Posted by mediumsizedal on October 19, 2009 07:08 PM | Reply to this comment

Not sure where the problems are. Glasgow have had different coaches over the last years and none of them have had much success. Probably the players are just not good enough. True we have a decent set of backs, but no real cutting edge - we are not scoring enough tries. Glasgow are the only team in the Magners league without a bonus point. The front row holds its own in scrums, but we need some great dirty ball carrying second rows & a ball carrying strong number8. Beattie often plays well in parts, but doubt if he is powerful enough for a professional 8. The lack of stength & technique is probably why we keep getting turned over so easily & why we are often messed around at mauls/rucks/linouts. The forwards weren't good enough last year, so there was no reason to believe the same group would be good enough this session. However as others have pointed out, without a decent budget & incentives it's difficult to see matters improving in the future. Can't fault the squad for effort, so they'll just have to keep putting in the work and they will get some successes, but i'm afraid not enough-hope to be proved wrong!!

Posted by Derek on October 19, 2009 07:11 PM | Reply to this comment

Of course the players and coaches can not hide behind the lack of cash to cover up every poor performance or bad result.

However overall to be seriously competing in the modern game at HC level teams need quality all over the park and not just 8 or 9 internationals, but 22!

Teams on limited resources will be able to compete on a match to match basis with the bigger spenders. But over a season, money talks and although money certainly does not gurantee you success, its much harder without it.

When was the last major NH club tournament not won by a team on large budgets?

Posted by del on October 19, 2009 07:30 PM | Reply to this comment

I totally agree. I don't think the fans are expecting to win the Heineken cup or even the magners but Edinburgh reached the knock out stages a few years back and with the group we were given this year we should have been looking to do the same. I look at the group of players and ask are they playing to their maximum. The answer is clearly no. A win over Connacht will not change my mind, the Heineken Cup was the yard stick to measure progress and we failed again. Lineen has had a fair crack of the whip and has made decent progress but it is time for a change I feel. With this season a write off I would suggest we do this soon so a new coach can use the remainder of the season to assess squad and future signings.

Posted by Derek on October 19, 2009 07:44 PM | Reply to this comment

"With this season a write off"

A bonus point win on Friday and we could be as high as 2nd at the end of the first third of the season!

Posted by del on October 19, 2009 08:00 PM | Reply to this comment

That's true and we have had plenty of bonus point wins this year haven't we? I am just sick of the same old inconsitent performances coming from Lineens teams and the past couple of weeks have been a huge let down.

Posted by Derek on October 19, 2009 08:22 PM | Reply to this comment

Fair point about the bonus points, but we must go into the game on Friday looking for a 5 point win. If we don't why bother turning up? Last two weeks have been a great let down, as we have been through this all too often.

Sean deserves till the end of the season before any, judgement on the future of the club is made!

Posted by del on October 19, 2009 08:54 PM | Reply to this comment

I respect your opinion Derek, I personally would want Lineen to be replace but am realistic to know that replacements wont be easy to find. It will take one heck of a performance in the magners to convince me that a change of coach is not the way forward.

Posted by firstfooter on October 20, 2009 02:05 PM | Reply to this comment

I was angry about the result on friday and at first I felt good
about the fact that Lineen was mad on his bbcsport interview.But
then I thought wait a minute,he picks the decision makers and he said that he thought the players were better than that.After all
the seasons he has been in charge surely he should be aware of their strengths and weakness`s.

Posted by neil morton on October 20, 2009 07:01 PM | Reply to this comment

They are just too lightweight and dare I say it, precious. No fault of their own but are the product of a regime that gives them delusions of being far better than they actually are.

Posted by alsfan on October 20, 2009 11:30 PM | Reply to this comment

Neil .. with all your negative comments and attitude to Glasgow Warriors and the Scottish International side, I presume that you won't bother to go and support the players on the field. Perhaps you would be better finding a sport which you think we are good at and support that (you may find it difficult, we are a small country with few resources .. curling, perhaps?). I choose to remain positive despite the obvious limitations and want to get behind the players which we have.

Posted by hello on October 21, 2009 12:14 AM | Reply to this comment

more to the point neil, why are you bothering with this forum?

Posted by steven on October 21, 2009 12:50 AM | Reply to this comment

I reckon if you pay 20 quid a throw to watch the team then you're entitled to an opinion - and here's mine

I've never been one to slag off Parks - but if we're talking decision makers here's the guy in the pivotal role - and he's way too easy to play against - cos he's one dimensional - he struggles to get the backs moving - always plays so deep behind the gain line that we struggle to get guys hitting the midfield gaps at pace - and the wingers don't see enough ball because he kicks most of it away - some nights its hard to remember when the wingers last touched the ball - and with Thom Evans on the pitch thats a travesty

Im not saying he's our only problem - far from it - but at 10 he sets the tone and the style - and far too often we find ourselves on the back foot because he cant get us over the gain line - so the forwards are never hitting the breakdown aggressively.

Posted by AJPatterson on October 21, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply to this comment

Parksy wasn't the major issue on Friday. He did make one mistake in the crossfield chip which led to the 1st try, but we win a lot more out of that tactic than we lose. Plus the defence could have got it.

Budgie and Bernie actually made more distribution howlers and Dan was actually one of the faster thinkers on the pitch.

It looked like the key thing was the breakdown - basically tackling at the wrong height and position, not backing each other up. Strength and physicality were not actually the big thing, several times Moray and Junior had to do a good job holding up a maul with brute strength, T-Bone was far from muscled off things as well.

I suspect there are older players who have been coached one way in their youth and are struggling to adapt to modern techniques. Some teams are using judo coaches now, and body position is highly important. Notably, the younger players all seem to be better in that regard and they should (& prob will) come in pretty rapidly now.

Posted by AJPatterson on October 21, 2009 11:00 AM | Reply to this comment

Sorry, the chip led to the 2nd try not the 1st. The 1st was a pushover, I was a long way from that and didn't see it. Had we defended that one, we might have won... and I had 22/1 at Ladbrokes on Junior scoring the 1st try in the match and he got the 2nd. Ho hum....

Posted by AJPatterson on October 21, 2009 11:01 AM | Reply to this comment

Sorry, the chip led to the 2nd try not the 1st. The 1st was a pushover, I was a long way from that and didn't see it. Had we defended that one, we might have won... and I had 22/1 at Ladbrokes on Junior scoring the 1st try in the match and he got the 2nd. Ho hum....

Posted by jonboy on October 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Reply to this comment

Can't put all the blame on DP. He does kick too often when he shouldn't but he also kicks too often because he has to. On many occasions he has no convincing ball carrier (forward) to give an option and we're so average at the breakdown that we lack confidence to keep the ball anyway. Add all that together and you can blame just about the whole team and gameplan. We HAVE to stop kicking it away to beat good sides though.

Posted by AJPatterson on October 21, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply to this comment

Possibly correct - I think we'll see some gameplan changes now that Richie Gray and Max seem to be coming back soon. Pity DTH broke his finger though, as I think he will turn out to be very good.

Posted by s153 on October 21, 2009 09:26 PM | Reply to this comment

"game plan changes" - with Lineen calling the shots - that would be a first, will be the same old one dimensional rugby, kicking away posession

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