Deja Vu ..Funny, I seem to have read that before somewhere ..cue comment from Hugh please !!

See you at Old Anniesland on Saturday to support your 2nd xv

This continues to be unfair. Hawks are being penalised for their own success.

As a matter of interest, how many of the current Hawks 1XV squad have played all their rugby at either GHK or Accies?

Not Colin Shaw, formerly of Ayr, or Steve Swindall of Whitecraigs. Can't tell from his player profile if Fergus Thomson came from elsewhere.

Someone previously has joked that Hawks are Glasgow's 2XV. Perhaps that is what a lot of ambitious players really think and perhaps that is why there are so many players coming to Glasgows ranks via Hawks.

In fact Hawks success is because they are perceived as a way to be seen by the professional clubs.

Hawks supporters should be grateful that there is a professional side in Glasgow.

Sorry about that. Fergus was at West of Scotland - I've added it to his profile now.

Sorry, Hugh, I won't be back from supporting my team in Ulster on time :)

Players from Hawks/Accies and GHK who have played for Glasgow/Edinurgh since Pro rugby started
DANNY ABLETT 1997
STEPHEN BEGLEY 1997
MATT MCGRANDLES 1997
GLENN METCALFE 1997
SHADE MUNRO 1997
MURRAY WALLACE 1997
DEREK STARK 1997
CAMMY LITTLE 1997
CHAS AFUAKWAH 1997
MIKE BECKHAM 1997
DANNY PORTE 1997
TOMMY HAYES 1998
GORDON MCILWHAM 1998
ANDY HENDERSON 2001
EUAN MURRAY 2001
RORY MCKAY 2002
TOM PHILIP 2002
KENNY SINCLAIR 2002
GRAEME MORRISON 2003
EUAN MURRAY 2003
STEVEN DUFFY 2004
FERGUS THOMSON 2004

Hugh, your virtually proving my point. A significant number of these were at clubs before Hawks.Hawks are pulling players from other clubs in the same way as Glasgow pull them from you.

How can you complain about a system, you as a club are benefiting from. If you'd developed all these players from youth to Senior rugby, like many of the clubs you get players from, then you might get more sympathy.

As it is, it sounds more like sour grapes that it is Glasgow that is top dog and not Hawks.

Glasgow's "top dog"? At the moment they are financially doomed due to SRU policy.

Won't the club sides like Glasgow Hawks still be around if the whole aspect of pro rugby in Scotland fails to find a backer?

A very dangerous situation. Anyone remember the Celtic Warriors?

And the OFT you cannot own a range of teams in the same competition
Maybe time for another investigation

AGREE WITH HIGHLANDER-WHAT GLASGOW STANDING ON ITS OWN FEET WITHOUT SRU SAFETY NET NO CHANCE WHERE ARE ALL THESE FRANCHISE OFFERS IN YOUR DREAMS

If anything, Hugh understates the case. Ally McLay, Steven Duffy, Richie McKnight, Eric Milligan, Chris Docherty, Gordon McFadyen, Richie Maxton, Neil McKenzie and Mark Sitch of this and last year's Hawks 1st XVs have all been involved with Glasgow. In addition Hawks are losing Scott Forrest and Sandy Warnock to Scotland Under 21 duties. Four of Hawks players were with Scotland Under 21 last season. Nearly all these players were developed by Hawks and those who join from other clubs - like Rory Lamont - do so because it is a step up. The question that should be asked is "Why do we need to subsidise an underperforming, wholly-owned subsidiary of the SRU which is a parasite on one particular club (Hawks) and contributes NOTHING to player development, when that existing independent club would do the job at least as well and probably command a bigger and more committed support?"

While all that is true, surely Hawks gain some benefit from these guys playing and training at a higher level. They bring back experience of professional coaching, nutrition and conditioning that a lot of other clubs don't get.

That is a fair point, Tom B. Difficulties arise, however, not only on Saturdays, when key players are absent, but particularly on training nights, when a team is being prepared, key members of it are away preparing with Glasgow and the Club does not know whether or not they will be required by Glasgow on the coming week-end. And don't believe anything you might hear about Glasgow Ws staff being co-operative. They have been as devious and duplicitous as Tony Blair's spin doctors!

True, there must be a lot of disruption to Hawks preparation and the pro team should be keeping that to a minimum.

Hawks are far and away the best club side in Scotland and most of that will go down to the hard work of the players and the coaches at OA. But watching Hawks, I think it's obvious that a number of your players have benefitted from their involvement with the pro team and age-groups squads. That involvement has helped make good players better.

"that existing independent club would do the job at least as well and probably command a bigger and more committed support?"

Nae chance ..why don't you have the support at games that the pro team have? Delusions of gradeur there from a Hawks fan. Why should other Glasgow teams support Hawks? The pro team have support from all clubs and many who don't support a club. It attracts Jo public too (who "don't understand rugby!")and want to support a "Glasgow" team in the wider sense.

Sit on it, don't talk through it, Alan. Hawks can operate without demanding millions from the SRU in subsidies, in the absence of which Glasgow Ws would disappear without trace. And where does that SRU money come from? It comes from the rugby men who pay extortionate sums to watch rubbish at Murrayfield. Why should Scottish rugby fans pay to subsidise a Glasgow professional team that cannot survive on its own?

Probably because Scottish Rugby fans have more identity with a city wide professional team than they do for any one club.

More and more the people going to watch Scotland have no club affiliation. Remember the days when you could only get tickets from a club. Oh and the queue for a couple of hundred at the Sports Shop in Byres Road. Now many of us get our tickets direct from the SRU or via Glasgow Warriers.

By the way, not one pro-Hawks supporter has answered my comment that ambitious players migrate to Hawks because they are in proximity of the professional team. Hawks success is as much down to that fact, and the player development at lower clubs that it is to the coaching and player development at OA.

3 from 3 of the Hawks players pulled to Glasgow this weekend started their rugby at other clubs.

I'll start feeling sympathy for Hawks when you give some credit to these other clubs.

we already do-when any of our boys get into Scottish Squads e.g Under 21s our webstories carry the name of their previous club check out on SRU site e.g last week Sandy Warnock Linlithgow and Hawks

In that I salute you.

Hopefully your wider supporter base will also give credit to these clubs and recognise it's not only Hawks(or indeed all Premier 1 teams) who lose out on players moving onwards and upwards.

It was ever thus. Gordon Brown will always be assicaited with west, but was a Marr man as was Peter, who is associated with Gala.
Hawks was set up to act as an open beacon for all the players in the city to aspire to. That is not to say that it is at the expense of other clubs, I know of few clubs who are as honourable as Hawks are in dealing with players from other clubs. The committee were genuinely delighted when GHA got promotion and they have a firm friendship with Ayr.
I have been frustrated in the past at their unwillingness to approach players at a different level who I thought would do well at Hawks.
I have no association with any of the clubs which formed Hawks, but I have no doubt that they are the most positive thing to happen in the district since the formation of the National League.

You are spot are on Phal in the great days of West--West men in the 1970s were actually Ayrshire men--Brown,Brown,Shedden,Dunlop,Gossman,Gossman nothing has changed. In fact this was remarked on in the Scottish Umpire in 1885 "some strong language is being thrown at West for pulling all and sundry into their capacious net"West were the Hawks of the time players went to Burnbrae to get Scottish caps.League rugby finished that when other clubs in the city went open.

Why is it just Glasgow out the three pro sides in Scotland who are continually dipping into the clubs for club players though?

The Borders have roughly the same size of squad as Glasgow (even a little smaller) and have injuries at the moment yet they aren't digging into their club sides each week for players?

They don't have six or seven players in the Scotland squad.

Ahhh...so once again we've come round to McGeechan & Williams doing all they can to manipulate for the national team without much care in the world for anyone else under the SRU umbrella!

ok then the same question about the Edinburgh setup. They have some players in the Scottish setup. They have injuries. So why don't they plough through the club game for numerous replacements each week in the rate we see at Glasgow?

Glasgow have had plenty of players out injured this season, so I'd imagine that's why. Why do you ask HB? Do you think there is another reason?

Not really Gordon. Although I do think McGeechan & Williams are giving the fingers to alot of people in Scottish rugby who have bent over backwards in the past to assist Scottish rugby. It does seem that the national side is all that matters in the whole of Scottish Rugby though.

I'm all for club players playing at a higher level although there's new laws being discussed for the Celtic league next season that may stop so many players being called from club sides into the pro squads without offering contracts or relying on them "freely".

I'm just wondering whether or not the players who have been continually called upon will secure pro contracts at the end of the season with the financial side of things not going to plan.

True - the guys that have come in have shown their abilities at the professional level - they deserve full-time contracts. But if they do get contracts, and the squad size still stays the same, then when the inevitable injuries and call-ups occur Glasgow will just have to dip back into the club game. Will McGeechan and Williams keep their hands off? What's the answer - perhaps part-time contracts for some players?

Edinburgh can share the callups over several clubs bu Glasgow tend to hit Hawks perhaps because other clubs refuse to release players by having them on contract remember Glasgow can call on Aberdeen GSFP how about Rob Seib?

Another reason Glasgow Ws keep calling on Hawks is that most of the players there are Scottish, eligible to play for Scotland, so local talent is being developed. Adelaide Grammar School FP is full of second rate Aussies. What is the point in a Scottish context of Glasgow Ws giving them a chance to play at a higher level?

Good point McD, since the reason for the pro teams is to feed the Scotland team ..and I hope these guys get to play for the national team in the not too distant future. On the other hand, I'd rather see a franchised team (independent of SRU, of course !!) who could pick any pro on merit rather than nationality ..like our Canadian prop who has done really well and never gets a mention 'cos he isn't eligible for Scotland.